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Lance Mannion

Seven sets of outstretched Republican arms, that's all the next Democrat needs. They're there. I don't think they'd reach out to Hillary. I think they'd reach out to Clark. But I think you're probably right about him.

By the way, one on one Hillary comes across as a star and she looks great in a parade. I've seen her, up close, marching down the street in a crowd of green hatted Irish pols and she shines. Not at all frumpy or stiff.

She's got great eyes too. They come across beautifully on TV.

But she's still Hillary Clinton.

Jedmunds

The only thing I disagree with is your comments on Clark. He was a novice last time around, and I really didn't like him, but he's keeping at it, and is developing. And I think he could surprise you. It really goes to show though that a real person with real rough edges is ridiculously unpalatable to the public, compared to those like McCain with manufactured rough edges.

Anyway, I don't like Biden. Please god not Biden. Only because, as you said, he's owned by corporations, but also I've found that he's been very "political" when it comes to Iraq, in the same way Kerry was, except probably a bit more hawkish. I'd rather not nominate a senator. I'd rather a governor somewhere came up and took us by surprise.

blue girl

Lance: What do you think of Biden?

Ok Jedmunds -- tell me more. Tell me what politician doesn't act political. And tell me a politician who isn't owned by something or someone. I'm really not being a smart ass here -- I want to know why you say "God No! Not Biden!"

The last person that I knew that I would describe differently than all others we have now is Paul Wellstone. And he's gone.

I'm very cynical. I do not believe any of them do anything out of the goodness of their hearts -- and I think they are all *workin' it* -- And whoever *works it* best -- wins.

No?

Jedmunds

Ok Jedmunds -- tell me more. Tell me what politician doesn't act political. And tell me a politician who isn't owned by something or someone. I'm really not being a smart ass here -- I want to know why you say "God No! Not Biden!"

I think it's a matter of degree though. I'm not as up on Biden as I should be, but whenever I hear about him, he's not putting me in a pleasant mood. He had a good turn on John Stewart last night though. Maybe he's just not working "it" for me. And maybe I'm just not as coldly calculating as you are.

But the guy is pretty firmly in the sissycrat wing of the party in terms of style, which is my first strike against him.

He voted for the Bankruptcy bill, which is the latest thing to stick in my craw about him. If he somehow gets the nomination will I support him depite this, yes. But he's not the guy I'm dreaming about at this point. What do we run on, if we got a guy who's made a career out of blurring the differences between republicans and democrats?

He's got a long Senate career to pour over, which will hurt him in the general.

Maybe this is short and unconvincing, but I don't want to do research and this comment is getting long enough. :)

blue girl

Jedmunds: Yes. I am very cold and calculating -- really I am! Sometimes I've got a pretty accurate antennae. (notice how I qualify my *special gift* with the words "sometimes" and "pretty."

Biden and the bankruptcy bill -- pure Citi Corp. His son's involved too somehow. Can't remember.

"...firmly in the sissycrat wing of the party" -- Whattya mean? Not standing up for progressive issues the way he should?

On another -- extrememly sad, sad note. Did you hear about the 20 Marines killed from Ohio today? Normally the local news here is terrible (which you know) -- but, they're doing a really good job today with it.

It's just so sad and really too much to take.

bob

Great post. I like Biden but gotta think a senator isn't going to make it. Any darkhorse governors out there?

Lance Mannion

Bob, I'd peg Mark Warner of Va. as our dark horse, but I don't know how he comes across on TV.

blue girl

Oooooh. Mark Warner. Good one. I will start paying more attention to him. And then file a report.

blue girl

Crud. The whole Senator thing with the record and all.....shitskis.

Lance, pass the gin.

Kevin Wolf

I agree with the sentiment that a governor might be the right choice as opposed to a senator - who are *really* bought and paid for.

Still, I think the Republicans simply want it more and have proven they'll do whatever it takes to get it, including outright theft.

The Viscount LaCarte

Howard Dean WAS the guy you were talking about, but the rest of the pack would've rather handed the presidency to George Bush then to have that outsider get the nomination. He was human. He made mistakes. He tried to answer questions honestly, and mostly he TOLD THE TRUTH. They were all like, "SHIT! WHAT THE HELL IS HE DOING? THAT SONOFABITCH IS TELLING THE TRUTH? HOLY CHRIST! HE IS CHEATING! CHEATER!"

Now he has no chance. How can you win when the members of your own party AND the media are all out to get you?

Funny though that all BushCo had to do was say, "Oh please give us Howard Dean!" as if that would be a dream come true. Nothing was futher from the truth. They needed to get him outa there early, before most people started to pay attention. The shit he was saying was clear and concise. It rang true. It hit them where it hurts and they were scared.

"Please let it be Dean!"

Yeah, right. That shit is right out of "The Art of War." Textbook strategy. If they wanted him so badly, if he was so easy to beat, why did they spend so much early money to knock him out? Why didn't they air commericals FOR his candidacy through some bogus proxy group? BushCo was scared shit of him, that's why. That basic false bravado strategy WORKED.

Hillary would be a disaster as a candidate. She is hated in the south. HATED. Like France, she is an easy target, but also like France, the hatred of her is largerly fabricated by the BushCo strategists.

Maybe Gore. Maybe Clark. Maybe Biden. Not Kerry.

Here is the thing though. It may not matter who we get.

Read this:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/09/15/notes091504.DTL

blue girl

Hi Viscount: I don't get why so many on the left hate Howard Dean. I remember years ago when he was on the cover of the Sun NYTs Magazine -- I liked him from that moment on.

And I still like him. I get those emails from Kerry and I role my eyes -- but, I don't have that reaction with "The Scream Man!"

Some have criticized how he stumbles when he speaks...who cares?

I was thinking last night -- all the fighting and disagreement that goes on within our own party is way worse than the fight against the right.

It's interesting.

Also, our phone rang off the hook all day and night the day after the election. And in every single conversation -- the whole concept of "it's just not bad enough yet" -- "it's got to get really, really bad for people to understand" -- every time, that's what the conclusion was.

Just like that article you linked to above.

Maybe we should print up T-shirts and bumper stickers:

"Bad enough yet for ya?"

Claire

I agree with you about Biden. He was just on the Daily Show (again? I feel like he's been on it a lot the past few months, but all these old, white guy pols kinda look the same after awhile), and I think he's hoping he's got star material. I think that he might. He looks and sounds presidential.

And hey-- rants aren't all bad. :)

Claire

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